UK Plumber Forum

[fraserp]

Dear all,

I'll try and keep this very brief.
Recently me and my partner have moved into a new property. There was a sewage blockage in a manhole outside the property. One eventful evening, we discovered our living room and bathroom completely soaking wet. And discovered under our carpet and bathroom lino, were two manhole covers. The sewage blockage from out side the property backed up in the two manhole's (of i think the right term is inspection units) in our property.

Our landlord had the blockage sorted, however just put mastic around the two manhole covers in both living room and bathroom.

Our question is: Is this mastic enough? Our landlord insists this is fine and adequate. However various plumbers have suggested we need double sealed manhole covers. And of course our landlord insists they are double sealed.
Do we need double sealed man hole covers? Are there laws in regards to this?

Please find attached image of one of our manhole covers that has been recently mastic'ed. This is in our living room, and spewed sewage out for a number of days.

Kind regards.
Fraser

[fraserp]

Side Note* After posting this, i contacted the manufacturer of these manhole covers. They advised me these are not double sealed, and not suitable for indoors. Even with the mastic covering.
They advised these manhole covers are for external use only. Gas, and water can still rise through these covers.

[SimonG]

Welcome to the forum.

External use only as you have found out. Get written confirmation from the manufacturer and give it to the landlord.

Give him a chance to rectify before you go to Environmental Health Department.

Hope you get it sorted.

[fraserp]

Thank you simonG.
Unfortunately because this has been going on for a few months now, environmental health has already got involved. (Though i must say quite useless). They sent a young man around who had no clue on this type of situation. So he took a picture on his phone and took it back to the office, where they wrote a report saying its fine. Lucky for them, they do not have to eat dinner above it.
Its just very difficult finding any legal information in regards to this.
I shall get written confirmation as soon as possible. Many thanks again!

[REDSAW]

hi fraser and welcome.

nice question and post.
quite frankly i am shocked and never seen this applied myself and would not want this in mine !!

gather the evidence and push it to EH. they will then act and will be rectified, unfortunately too idle or out their scope to decide until then.

was the house built on a car park?

[Best]

I would also speak to your local building control, and tell them of the evidence of manhole manufacturer.
Then say your landlord insists the manholes covers are fine indoors.
Ask them to check record of building certificate of any work done

[fraserp]

Thank you Best and Redsaw for your replies.

I think the house was a ruin until 15 years ago. And the block management had it rebuilt? pffft not to sure. But it is a large flat, and we are the basement. Building control? Like the building management? I have spoken to the block management. They actually seem like they are trying to cover them selves for any legal action. The block management have denied knowing the drains were there. So has the land lord. And so has the estate agent. So apparently no one knew they were here, though they were refitted last year apparently. The block management are useless. All they ask is how much.

"Ask them to check record of building certificate of any work done". I will do this. And get it in writing.

Thank you!

[joni os]

Contact Housing Officer at local council. Housing Act 2004 gives councils wide powers to enforce minimum standards on rented properties. Definitely requires double seal screw down cover. If landlord fails to comply , council can invoice directly for their time and visits, ( usually £250+) . This is a great incentive for Landlord to comply.

[Best]

Building control? Like the building management?

No, by Building Control, I meant your local building inspectors.
As Joni said, - Contact your local council by telephone to quickly arrange action.
Your landlord is responsible to you, so your claim is with him

[joni os]

From own experience:- Cuts in local authority finance, over the last decade, has forced building control to concentrate on core activity, i.e. that for which they get a fee, and they are reluctant to discuss past works beyond issuing copies of certification. This is particularly true if an oversight or default could be laid their door. By contrast the housing officers are most keen to justify their existence, especially if their involvement can be retrospectively financed by landlord's non compliance.

[fraserp]

Thank you all so much!

This may seem straight forward to you all, but for some reason to me, it isnt. So thank you for your time.
I have sent yet another email to my landlord early this afternoon. If i do not get a response, i will contact my local housing officer.
Joni you have been a great help!

Thank you all once again.
(For future note, i will update this post for any reference)

Cheers!

[REDSAW]

Basement?
you could be in danger of floating to the ceiling in a flash flood !!

[fraserp]

Thanks Redsaw!!

You have officially given the mrs nightmares!

[Best]

Thanks Redsaw!!

You have officially given the mrs nightmares!

And he isn't joking! It is possible.
Better on high ground, I say.
I would start looking around for a better rental place, no matter the outcome of your complaint.
A basement is only suitable as a store IMO

[fraserp]

Building Regulation's 2010, Drainage and Waste Disposal -
2.54 - Inspection chambers and manholes should have removable non-ventilating covers of durable material (such as cast iron, cast or pressed steel,precast concrete or plastics) and be of suitable strength. Small lightweight access covers should be secured (for example with screws) to deter unauthorized access (for example by children). Inspection chambers and manholes in buildings should have a mechanically fixed airtight covers unless the drain itself has watertight access covers.
Manholes deeper than 1m should have metal step irons or fixed ladders.

So our manhole covers/inspection chambers have neither mechanically fixed airtight covers and does not have a watertight cover. The manhole in the bathroom is extremely deep. I am 6ft 7" and it almost as deep as i am tall, and does not have step ladders.
I hope i am reading this correctly, and this is working to my favor.

[fraserp]

Thanks Redsaw!!

You have officially given the mrs nightmares!

And he isn't joking! It is possible.
Better on high ground, I say.
I would start looking around for a better rental place, no matter the outcome of your complaint.
A basement is only suitable as a store IMO

And now i will have nightmares!
Yes you are right though. We did a big leap to move from London, to a small coastal town. We thought on moving to the coastal town we would move into a very cheap property to start with. We are now seeing why it is so cheap

[REDSAW]

in my opinion,

it is a potential safety hazard- what if?
you cannot predict nature and pressure/water will find the easiest route first. that may include methane or natural gas!
what about fumes?

don't matter which country your in but here's an example- and your in the lowest part!
fortunately there's no gators here, put a sofa over it and sleep well

[fraserp]

I cant stop laughing. Though i should take this more seriously, its bloody funny!
The sofa will definitely be placed over the manholes!

[RPM]

It`s not a pump lifting station is it? That is the only time I`ve seen a manhole cover inside a house.

[fraserp]

It`s not a pump lifting station is it? That is the only time I`ve seen a manhole cover inside a house.

I have no idea. I actually found planning permission for this address this evening. The three basement flats (including my own) used to be storage units for the flats upstairs. So some one put in planning permission in 2003 for these to be converted. The rest of the building above has been here since the 1950's i believe.

[fraserp]

It`s not a pump lifting station is it? That is the only time I`ve seen a manhole cover inside a house.

Oh ive just got what you meant by "Pump lifting station" sorry. Forgive my ignorance.
Uhm, not as far as i believe. The manhole in the lounge takes water from our kitchen sink, washing machine and so on. Then that runs through the hallway into the bathroom manhole, that takes the bath,sink and toilet waste. Then that runs about 3 foot into the (basement garden) where there is a form of tank that takes the entire buildings waste.And it is that actual tank that seems to get blocked, and run back into our apartment.

[fraserp]

I actually have countless pictures, if any one requests to see.

[RPM]

No worries it's not ignorance if you don't know about such things.

[REDSAW]

I actually have countless pictures, if any one requests to see.

feel free, visualization is a lot of words combined

[fraserp]

Here are a few of the pictures. Not so bad, though spoiler alert, possibly dont be eating while looking?

Picture One shows the manhole in the living room.


Picture Two shows the manhole in the bathroom.


Picture Three shows the inside of one of the manholes while the blockage was being pumped.


Picture Four shows the inside of the drain once the blockage was removed.


Picture Five shows the next drain, right outside our back door. About two foot away from the manhole in our bathroom. This is used by the rest of the building, and gets blocked. Then the sewage and waste water comes into our apartment via the two manhole covers.


So, again, the manhole in the living room takes kitchen waste water, which travels five foot to the manhole in the bathroom. The manhole in the bathroom takes our toilet, bath and sink waste. That then travels a little less than two foot to the basin out side our back door.

[fraserp]

You can obviously see in the last picture what caused the blockage. People who live above us think baby wipes and nappies can go down the toilet... This blockage is a common occurrence in this building.

[REDSAW]

i'd expect that in a garage !!!

its a hazard

[fraserp]

This is such a mess now.

So when this was first discovered, environmental health came and assessed the situation. Within a hour or two, environmental health contacted both my landlord and letting agent with a report. My letting agent contacted us in regards to this report, explaining environmental health deemed it safe and adequate and so on.

So of course, i came here. I spoke to manufacturer's plus hired drainage specialists who all said, its not safe, they need to be double sealed. So recently ive contacted my letting agent and landlord and explained this to them, offering reports from drainage specialists and further information from the manufacturer. While doing so, i requested the report from my letting agent, that the environmental health sent them.

Took my letting agent two days to respond, and the response was, No (in so many words). I was confused, however i contacted environmental health my self. The agent who came to the property actually did not write nor send a report to the letting agent.

So, my letting agent has put both me and my partner at risk, and blatantly lied about a report they have not received.
Lucky for me i now have to wait too long for the environmental health management team to contact me.
So at the moment i am a sitting duck.

Really running out of idea's now. I guess its a waiting game for environmental health to contact me again.

(Thought ill give the update, as these two drains seem to be dominating my day's. )

[REDSAW]

E.H is working for you not the agent.
you are the first point of call for any findings and proposed action.
just get all the evidence include contamination to furnishings etc. they have to enforce it cant happen agian.
usually within 14 days.

[SimonG]

Need to push Environmental Health, they can be a bit insipid, but once they get going things will move.
As for the letting agent, is there an ombudsman that oversees them?